Hiroshima was justified because it ended the war quickly
November 11th 2006 13:40
Atomic bomb over Nagasaki
Well and good. But even putting rights talk to one side, and speaking only in terms of consequences, it is not at all clear that possible loss of life and suffering, had the war continued, outweigh the definite loss of life, and the definite suffering, that did occur.
It is, moreover, misleading to speak of Hiroshima as if it were over, when it is still
Torso of a boy exposed to the Hiroshima atomic bomb
It is not an easy thing to wrap up the consequences of Hiroshima into a neat bubble, and to weigh it against all the counterfactual possible worlds.
Perhaps Hiroshima will result in more good than evil from the end-of-time perspective. Perhaps the horror of it has already led to less nuclear proliferation than in another possible world.
Who can say?
Atomic Bomb Dome at ground zero in Hiroshima
***
This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the Wikipedia articles Hiroshima and Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
| 190 |
| Vote |
Add To: 
subscribe to this blog
Comment by Adele
Lost Fanatic
Day Break TV
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
additional american and japanese military life maybe, but no way as many civilian lives.
They don't show the pictures or anything like that, but there was too much suffering to justify what happened then.
I think one good thing that came of the manhattan project was nuclear power, like many great things (the modern industrial revolution for example) that came from world war 1 and 2 it all started with the single purpouse of annihalating other people.
Maybe because capitalism is based on competition, and there is no greater competition than pure raw war between nations that drove all this to be the way it is today. Yes it sucks that it takes war to drive people a bit further.
Anyone reckon the US will drop a nuke on a hapless third world country to 'end a war' quickly and save 'more lives'?
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
Ahmed, I'm not going to give you a proper response just yet, but
-- the US might well drop nukes on countries if it were at war with them and it felt the military pressures and objective warranted the collateral damage and other consequences; I don't see why it (or any other country) wouldn't...
-- it's very true that war is a time of great innovation. Nothing else mobilizes a country in quite the same way. It's a common thought, in fact, going back at least to Thucydides, that it's good to be at war, because it keeps you sharp.
-- is civilian life necessarily worth more than military life?
-- I'm unsure if fewer civilian lives would have been lost if there were a longer bombing and invasion campaign...
-- I really don't know about the justifiability in terms of suffering... I guess my whole post is about that question, and doesn't really come to a conclusion.
Comment by spain01
Juan Carlos
spain again
While your'e about it
Viva l'difference
Fire News Blog
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
Another sharply made point, and one regarding which I know too little about history to argue or agree with.
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
-Can't argue wtih this point, sad but true...
-Yes civilian life is worth more than military life, that is why there is a military, to protect civilian life. Fight for king and country and all the rest
-Definatley fewer, it would take something calculated, like what hitler done, to reach that level of human loss imo...
-I'd rather not see civilians suffer, they didn't buy into the war, the leaders did, the miliatry was part of it.
Comment by Damo
The logic of whether they did the right thing by bombing Hiroshima is not as clear cut. Yes it stopped the war but was it the best method or was there other factors making this decision. Such as how possessing the ultimate weapon would shape future world politics in favour of the US? Then again the out come of the war was never certain.
Comment by katyzzz
Photography Tips
MS Paint Art
I think it was justified. The war did need to be finished quickly, and now we need to finish the Peace in Iraq.
US does war extremely well, but seems to do Peace, not nearly so well
Others, don't scream and shout at me, leftist extremists, you can never do argument well unless you demonstrate reason!
Well, here we go, better you than me.
katyzzz
Comment by nagster
Cenacle
US didnt start the war. Japan did. In war, the first rule of a nation is to win it. As for the suffering of civilians, t
Adrian, the point you made about the sufferings of Hiroshima are still continuing, well I could say the scars of WW2 and the use of the bomb may still be visible on US too.
Japan since then has been a model country and we can only refrain from pointing fingers and work diligently from preventing something like taht happening again.
Comment by nagster
Cenacle
The point that US bombed because it wanted to become a power! Well, US became a world power much before that. I think by the end of WW1 US was a major power . I reviewed a WW1 book on my blog.
So, I don't think that argument holds water. It had already lost thousands of its sodliers, the public was weary, it was costly and hell they needed to end the war and as an additional motivation, Japan did bomb US unlike Nazi Germany. At that time, that'd have been a big thing for the US which was unused to attacks like that.
And Coming to Dresded. After any war or argument, there will always be some sulking against the victor. Dresden bombing had always been used as a complaint againt the Allies and more seriously, has been used by some Historians to absolve germany of any or all wrongdoing.
BTW, Adrian are you back from your holidays?
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
Then again, I"m not an advocate of 'the end justifies the means', particularly when the means involve killing millions of people.
Comment by Damo
I'm not sure what read into what I wrote but was very careful not to condemn anybody over the decision. I was make an observation that nobel gestures and clear cut choices are very rare indeed.
Given the same choices and competing interests how could anyone be certain that they did the right thing? Why are we afraid to ask ourselves these tough questions?
However I think Spain01 does make a good point about a remore island as a warning shot.
Comment by Damo
I made a claim about Dresden that was rightly questioned.
So I present Winston Churhills memo condemning the bombing as evidence.
Comment by BigCountry
The Japanese philosophy of Bushido DEMANDED that fighting to death was the only to wage war. Basicly, we will kill you, the only way to stop us is to kill us. I believe we played by THEIR rules.
Nagasaki was a full week after Hiroshima. It was NOT the primary target. The primary target was the shipyards in Sasebo. The shipyard was fogged in and so they dropped on their secondary target, the Nagasaki industrial zone.
They started a war with us, they lost. Bummer
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
It isn't as simple as 'they strted a war and got defeated', they didn't get defeated, the military was still there, what hapened was they surrenderd because they weren't prepared to sacrifice civilian lives for it, not to the same extent the US was. The united states military killed innocent people to get its way, still happens, but it isn't working any more. Now that other countires do have nuclear warheads it is too dangerous for the US to use theirs anymore (for obvious reasons, would cripple them diplomatically), now its all in carpet bombing and the like, yet when there is a half decent war being waged (or barely even that) it shows the US cannot make a stand, not even with allies.
Honeslty I think its the french, the french were involved in every war the US won, hiostorically the french have been behind many significant US miliatary victories thusfar, what happens when they withdraw support and speak openly against the war? Interesting to say the least.
Comment by BigCountry
And they haven't supported the current war, and HAVE spoke out against it.
The Japanese in WWII were willing to kill ANYONE to acheive their goals. On Saipan they threw their own wives and children into the sea so that they could focus on fighting the enemy. They killed thousands of the Chammorro and Carolinian people in the Pacific just to get them out of the way. Many of these folks were their own citizens.
The Japanese surrendered because they LOST. We destroyed them. The Nukes were the final straw. AS far as the targets being legitimate, they were industrial areas that were full of factories churning out war goods. That's how you win wars, by destroying the enemy's ability to make war. We won because we were better at war than they were at that time. They brought a knife to a gunfight.
I guess if you're French you win by throwing Baggettes and camembert at them. It would have been as effective as anything else they did.
But, if you're American and someone starts a war with you, you knock their dick in the dirt. "ohhh!! did that hurt? Bummer!!"
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
You have my sympathies.
Comment by BigCountry
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
Comment by katyzzz
Photography Tips
MS Paint Art
Vive La France.
katyzzz
Comment by BigCountry
You still haven't educated me on how France is responsible for my freedom. My Da fought to free the French though. He told me there wasn't a frenchman to be found when we stormed the beaches....... and none of this has anything to do with the bombs dropped on the Empire of Japan
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
I guess arrogance is a quality you have, that we fortunately do not share, otherwise this would go on and on.
Getting emotional over your arrogance won't really do much, in fact it will just be a detriment to my position which is cool and unbiased.
Those intelligent enough will understand the basic fundamental of my reasoning, those who aren't can side with you, I don't mind. No one said intelligence, reasoning, and common sense in general belong to a majority. If they did, they wouldn't be such prized qualities. I'll leave it at that for you.
Comment by BigCountry
You're right, about one thing, though. I am arrogant. But I finish what I start, and I win. Or I lose and tell my opponent "well, you won fair and square". You did neither, you just quit when you didn't have an answer for my question. That's just as well, I was starting to feel bad about fighting a war of wits with someone who was unarmed. Next time bring your Mother and we'll be more evenly matched.
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
I wasn't gonna post anything, but you just reminded me of that one saying.
Oh and you are wrong, I wouldn't want to start something I can't finish, which is why I'm avoiding this. I can't finish it.
Comment by Adele
Lost Fanatic
Day Break TV
http://www.lostfanatic.net/limericks-needed/
Comment by BigCountry
I'm going to bed now, where I'll sleep soundly, knowing I am protected by my country's arsenal of nukes aimed at every other country that has them. And knowing that we can knock flat anyone who tries us. I also feel sad for the land down Under. It was such a cool place the last time I was there. Now it has folks like, well... you How the mighty have fallen.....
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
Just thought I'd let you know I wasnt arguing, I quit arguing with arrogance this year, it was my new years resolution...
Comment by Adele
Lost Fanatic
Day Break TV
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
Though we should stop hogging adrian's lil ol blog
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
Just three points in response...
1. I'm back from my holidays!
2. I personally find BigCountry's stats-citing to be the most compelling pro-bomb argument so far advanced in this discussion. And Spain01's "couldn't they have dropped it somewhere else?" to be the most compelling anti-bomb argument.
The pro-bomb argument that I'd reject (and I think BigCountry and Nagster are suggesting a version of this) is that any and all action is permissible against someone who wants to kill you.
I'd also reject that one should never feel sorry for one's enemy, and that one should judge one's own actions by the morality of an enemy.
Will expand on these points if anyone is interested, but will keep it short for now.
3. I have to admit, I don't understand what the French have got to do with anything...
Comment by Damo
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
The French have ben involved in almost every significant US military victory, from the war of independance, were George Washington himself (an otherwise quiet man) lept up in joy after hearing that the french were going to aid them, to World War 2 were there was an American political figure (I think it was a political leader) acknowledging the US was indebted to France, even in the war.
Without the french, there would be no USA anyway, I think that on its own is all that anyone needs to know.
All these problems with the France American relation is from the newer foreign poliices of the US which the French do not back up. It's funny it works like this, but it does, I guess when the entire foundations of a country is based off the support it recieved from another it just sticks to the country...
I was simply explaining the united states is overly arrogant on its power as of now, and keeps refusing to acknowledge its history, one in which it has been pretty much supported by the french through and through. BigCountry simply is proving my point with his arrogance.
Anyway, more on topic, it isn't about feeling sorry for your enemy or not, its about asking yourself, who is the enemy? Are the people who live in that country the enemy? If so then it is entirely justified that in foreign countries American 'civilians' are taken and killed, they are the enemy, in Iraq, Afghanistan wherever. I know BigCountry's response is going to be 'but then we'll kill Iraqi's and Afghani's in America', well he should note that the vast majority of 'foreigners' (so-called) in the US, especially the 'Iraqi's' and 'Afghani's' are in fact American citiizens. Are you going to deny them that now?
Anyway, I'm done with this little 'debate', I've already said too much. BigCountry can go say whatever he wants, he's pretty much laid his foot down on the opposite end of the fence.
Comment by ChrisM
i just wanted to bring two points into this discussion and have you guys decide their relevance or lack there of.
firstly that after iwo jima, its a little known fact that emperor Hirohito was willing to negotiate a surrender with the allies with certain concessions. that although the bushido spirit was prevalent throughout the armed forces of japan, this included the honouring of the one you served and hence, they would have respected his decision if he was allowed it.
secondly, that one of the main reasons that truman allowed the bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki was to teach the soviet union in american military strength. both churchill and truman have attested to this.
Comment by BigCountry
You are absolutly correct in that Truman was also sending a message to Stalin. The Germans, and the Soviets had their own nuclear programs trying to develope an atom bomb. We found out not long after the war that the German program had not amounted to much. We had no such info on the Soviets until they exploded their own.
As for Hirohito having offered a conditional surrender: It's true, he did. His conditions were that the US cease hostilities and they would, too. It was proposed that the Phillipines become a Japanese Protectorate, and that the puppet Empire of Manchuko become the Japanese Prefecture of Manchuko. Except for those "adjustments" the US and Empire of Japan return to their pre-war territories. That's not a surrender. That's a ceasation of hostilities, a ceasation that leaves the US Territory of the Phillipines in enemy hands, along with 1/2 of China who was our ally.
It was DECADES before all the Japanese finally surrendered. On Guam they still had hold outs up in the jungled hills in the 70s. In the Phillipines they were still coming out of the jungles and burning the Philipinoes crops as late as 1973 before they killed the last one to refuse to surrender. In Japanese schools they still don't teach about Pearl Harbour.
Nuclear weapons are terrible things.I hear about how terrible America is because we have nukes. I have been told we are arrogant for one reason or another. But every country I've been to (over 100) we were on the front pages of the local newspapers, and the broadcast news spent more time discussing doings in America, than in their own nations. It's one reason I came to America. I have never regretted that decision.
Comment by garry
People who justify the bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki , are basically americans , who are stupid ,and they think that killing innocent people make them brave .
But the time has come that they get back what they have given to the world. 11 september was a good punishment to them .(for people who think atomising japan was a good idea)
a country which has no respect for human life , can never become a great country .you make the most number of atom bombs you keep killing innocent people , like japanese , oneday when you taste the fruit of your own doing then only you will realize ...........your mistake .
bombing of japan was the biigest mistake ever made by any human being . i must say that they dont deserved to be called human beings .
i wish that no country uses the dirty bombs , and stop manufacturing them as well .
Comment by BigCountry
You're an idiot. Every country that decided to "study war no more" ceased to exist. Ask the Tibetans what happens when you refuse to have an army. I agree that peace, prosperity, and contemplation of God and His creation should be the highest goal a person or community should aim for. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen until the Lord comes back. When he comes back, I'll throw away my nukes, Until then, like Colonel Tibbets, I'll drop one on the enemies of my adopted nation and sleep like a baby afterward. The US didn't bomb Pearl Harbour, the Japonese did. They started a war, we finished it.
Lots of countries hate the US, mostly because they can't get their act togethor enough to compete against us. Those that copy us, have done VERY well. Ask the Japonese.
You talk about how evil the US is because we dropped a bomb on a country we were at war with, a war THEY started, then turn around and laud a bunch of cowardly terrorists for 9/11. You're not only an idiot, but you're a hippocrite to boot.
Comment by simbad
I agree with bigcountry in that absolute pacifism is impossible, and that there were strong arguments for dropping bombs on Japan (ie. quick end to war which may well have decimated a country indoctrinated by the never surrender ethos of bushido). However there are strong arguments against the nuclear strike as well, It was estimated that the United States alone would lose upwards from 250,000 of it's soldiers and sailors invading the Japanese Home Islands. Truman was of the philosophy that it was more desirable to kill 1 or 2 million of the enemy than a quarter million or more of his own folks . to me that is absolutely unacceptable (obviously not to most self serving Americans), this doesn't even make sense. the classic example of ends justifying means is 'would you kill two people to save four people?', and alot of people debate the moral answer to this question, so how can you possibly claim absolutely that it is moral to kill 1 or 2 million over 1/4 of a million. am i the only one who realizes how insane that sounds? and it shouldn't matter if those people are American or Japanese, whatever happened to all men are created equal, I thought that Americans were supposed to be a Christian nation.
the other reason i disagree with bigcountry is that he stated "They started a war, we finished it. ", this is such a typical American viewpoint and i've heard it from a few other bloggers on this forum. That is infact not true, Japan was being practically starved out of existence by a US trade embargo leading up to the attack on Pearl harbor, they had no choice but to attack America, so don't get so high and mighty about who's fault the war was and who started what, your not exactly innocent in this matter by any stretch of the imaginatuon
and also BC, im not french, but i respect and admire their rich culture and invaluable contribution to our global civilization a great deal more than I do the USA's so lay off the French, we can't all be superpowers filled to the brim with big guns, prostitutes and people living below the poverty line with disgraceful standards of public education. (Sorry USA that was a cheap shot).
anyway, there's a bit of food for thought for you all. maybe ill come back and see what you all make of it.
Comment by BigCountry
Sorry it took so long to get back; I don't get the eMail alerts to responses anymore.Would I kill 8 to save one? if the8 are my ENEMIES then hell yes!! Not if they are allies or neutrals though. You are right, the US is a self-serving country, show me a country that isn't. And war is the ultimate in self-serving.
The US was doing nothing to starve the Japanese prior to WWII. We just refused to sell them oil, or scrap metal. Something that everyone on the face of the earth thinks is a great thing to do to the USA. Arabs embargo the USA and everyone cheers. USA does the same to a nation that is occupying another and the USA is an evil self-serving empire. Quite hippocritical, wouldn't you say? No one is forced to start a war, but any nation has the right to defend themselves. Or is that every nation except the USA?
The USA is NOT a Christian nation, it is a secular nation who's population is about 84% Christian of 1 stripe or another. It was founded on Christian principals, though.
As for our poverty line, it's pretty high. I live below the poverty line and I own 2 vehicles, 9 acres of land and my own home. This is a great country to be poor in. Even the starvlings are 100 lbs overweight!!
We agree about the education in the US. Everytime we try to emulate Europe everything goes to hell here. I never could figure out why so many folks WANT to keep trying that.
Every country is full of prostitues. I've been to over 100 other nations and ran into whores in every one of them, and availed myself to quite a few of their services. Flash a couple of American dollars and they seem to come out of the woodwork. All countries have prostitutes.
Guns, yes we have lots of them, you say that like it's a bad thing. I'm quite poor (below the poverty line, remember) so I only own 9 rifles, four shotguns (got my deer yesterday morning, a 6 point), and a few handguns. The difference between the US and other countries, is that here EVERYONE is allowed to own a gun, other countries only the criminal element has them.
As for the French, they are allowing themselves to be bred out of existance by the the Arab immigrants intheir country and in another generation or 2 won't matter to ANYONE anymore. The same as they DON'T matter to America now. They have a rich culture, it's true. Examples of which include sinking civilian ships full of environmentalists, selling weapons to terrorists, and whining about their past glories.
The citizens of every country on the planet seem to believe the US is evil because we are successful as a nation, and as a people.They want us to be more "global". To stop hurting the feelings of other nations by being so successful, yadda yadda yadda. If other countries would take care of themselves and stop waiting for the US to take care of them, they would be better off. Instead of be so jealous about what we have become, look to us as an example of what you could aspire to.
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by UKPolitics
Comment by Ayman
“Would I kill 8 to save one? if the8 are my ENEMIES then hell yes!!
The argument is will you kill 7 babies and 1 enemy soldier to save your own.
It was not an either or situation. There were other options of which you know about.
Sooo eager to kill, I love the Christian principles upon which your country stands…
Etc, etc,,
Not if they are allies or neutrals though.”Babies are not neutral in Japan?
After demeaning every other nation/race (France, Europe, Asia, Japan, Arabs, etc..) who are your allies exactly ? It seems that if this argument is carried on. your allies will turn out to be only the ones that carry your view point..emm that tells a lot..
You are right, the US is a self-serving country, show me a country that isn't. And war is the ultimate in self-serving.
True. War in Iraq , self-serving for oil.
The US was doing nothing to starve the Japanese prior to WWII. We just refused to sell them oil, or scrap metal. Something that everyone on the face of the earth thinks is a great thing to do to the USA.
Who thinks it a great thing to do ? only the U.S and its allies.
To not sell them oil is to run the entire economy down, “ignoramus”!
Etc, etc
Arabs embargo the USA and everyone cheers. USA does the same to a nation that is occupying another and the USA is an evil self-serving empire. Quite hippocritical, wouldn't you say?
Iraq occupying who?
Iran occupying who?
Cuba occupying who?
Lala lalalla laaa?
No one is forced to start a war,
Pre-emptive war it was called, against Iraq buddy, remember?
but any nation has the right to defend themselves.Like in Hiroshima and Nagazaki ?
Like in Iraq? Esp in Abu Ghrayb ?
Haha huhu !?
The USA is NOT a Christian nation, it is a secular nation who's population is about 84% Christian of 1 stripe or another.
Are you working this Christmas ?
It was founded on Christian principals, though.I agree. That’s what the native Indians said. I kid you not! You can also ask the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They know
As for our poverty line, it's pretty high. I live below the poverty line and I own 2 vehicles, 9 acres of land and my own home. This is a great country to be poor in. Even the starvlings are 100 lbs overweight!!
Waw. I have just as much as you do, but I am not below that line?! Emm who prepares your taxes!?
We agree about the education in the US.
You must be a math teacher!
Everytime we try to emulate Europe everything goes to hell here. I never could figure out why so many folks WANT to keep trying that.
When exactly did you emulate Europe? And who brought you back from hell ?!
Google: Euro vs Dollar
Google: culture and music
Every country is full of prostitues. I've been to over 100 other nations and ran into whores in every one of them, and availed myself to quite a few of their services. Flash a couple of American dollars and they seem to come out of the woodwork. All countries have prostitutes.
Sure, ask the few American bastards!
Guns, yes we have lots of them, you say that like it's a bad thing. I'm quite poor (below the poverty line, remember) so I only own 9 rifles, four shotguns (got my deer yesterday morning, a 6 point), and a few handguns. The difference between the US and other countries, is that here EVERYONE is allowed to own a gun, other countries only the criminal element has them.
Yep yep. School kids have many guns in the U.S too… Its freedom at its peak!! I kid you not.
As for the French, they are allowing themselves to be bred out of existance by the Arab immigrants intheir country and in another generation or 2 won't matter to ANYONE anymore.
I smell racism. !!! it smells like shit
And what country do you come from FOB ?
Say hi to Barak HUSSIEN Obama
Etc, etc…
Examples of which include sinking civilian ships full of environmentalists, selling weapons to terrorists, and whining about their past glories.
Selling weapons to Bin Laden you mean ?
Or is it to Saddam ?
Yep , I heard many of those environmentalists suffocated to death in Abu Ghrayeb , by the French! I kid you not.
The citizens of every country on the planet seem to believe the US is evil because we are successful as a nation, and as a people.
You are very successful “as a people”, it’s obvious
Successful , very .. Ask the natives ! I kid you not!
They want us to be more "global". To stop hurting the feelings of other nations by being so successful, yadda yadda yadda.
Nations have feelings?
Do you have feelings?
How does it feel to be humiliated ?
Huhu haha
If other countries would take care of themselves and stop waiting for the US to take care of them, they would be better off. Instead of be so jealous about what we have become, look to us as an example of what you could aspire
I bet you’ve got 10000 non American (esp Natives) inspired already! What a gr8 fellow you are!
Thanks for not blogging anymore
Comment by BigCountry
I am glad it was Truman who had to make that decision and not me. I like to think I have the moral courage to do what has to be done, but I'd just as soon not find out on that particular score.
I value other peoples' viewpoints if they are well thought out. But I have a hard time suffering fools, Hi Ahmed, hey Ayman, what's up, Garry?
Ayman, if you live till your 12th birthday, or if they start teaching English in your madrassa, I'll happily debate with you. Until then, piss off and go home to your Momma.
Comment by Ayman
Again you choose to attack the arguer and not counter argue. That’s just who you are!
"But I have a hard time suffering fools" .. "successful as a people" you must be a UCLA graduate!
As for my English, unfortunately I learned "English" in American universities. I was later told that this has nothing to do with proper English.
Ok then, I am going home, to ur Moma!
Comment by BigCountry
Then you went back to your hovel and whined about how good we were to you. It's ok, I understand. Happens all the time. I have a dog who bites when he's fed here on my farm. So you see, it's actually very common.
Once again you've spat out your hatred and vitriol (do you know what vitriol means? probably not) but again you have no facts or stats. just hatred and venom.
I stand by what I said before; one way to spell loser is A-Y-M-A-N.
I have to butcher my pigs tomorrow, so I won't be able to answer you before Sunday morning. 1200 lbs of pork doesn't cut and wrap itself. So you'll have a day or so to come up with an intelligent response. Well, a response anyway, intelligent would probably be expecting a bit much. Good luck, from what I've already seen of your well thought out maunderings, you're really going to need it.
Just out of curiousity; what 3rd world shithole of a country do you originate from?
Comment by BigCountry
Anyway, all the butchering is done for the next few weeks, So, if you ever have a coherant thought, I now have the time to show the world how ignorant you are. I'm waiting......