Attitudes towards nudity: French vs Australian
November 14th 2006 03:02
Wikipedia has an overview of customs of undress across times and cultures.
Just wanted to add this anecdotal claim.
In Europe generally, nudity is common on television. Children go naked on beaches in Portugal. The genders mix nakedly in Finnish saunas (just as they used to do in Roman bathhouses).
A friend of mine estimates that one in three women will go topless on French beaches. Whereas, when she bared her chest on an Adelaide beach, children spied on her, and wrote the word "whore" in the sand.
But in Europe generally, you won't see people dressed as skimpily as Australians are wont to. You won't see some shirtless guy going for a jog, or manning a cash register; and you're less likely to find backless dresses and mini-miniskirts.
And the look in French clubs is androgynous. So if you're female and you outift yourself like a typical Australian clubber, you'll get very hit on, and people will call out "Whoa mama" and "Oh la la" at you in the street.
***
This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the Wikipedia article Nudity.
The first image is of the FKK-Radtour 2001 on June 14, 2001 in Karlsruhe. Photo courtesy of Ralf at http://no-limit-nudism.de.
The second image is of "The Plague" on stage at Nambassa 1979. Image copyright Nambassa Trust and Peter Terry: http://www.nambassa.com.
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Comment by Damo
In the western religious people tradionally put on an extra item of clothing as a mark of respect. In Eastern religions it is customary to take off articals of clothing.
Veils, hats and caps in the west.
No shoes in the east.
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
Incidentally, I think that people would have a lot healthier attitudes towards other people's bodies and their own if they were raised with casual nudity.
Comment by Damo
I am happy to go around in the nude at home but for strange reason my family objects.
My father used to say that there is nothing wrong with nudity except for where you get sunburnt.
Tribal Papuan Women often turn up to the local Catholic Church topless. 'They also pray about Christ all Buggered Up.'
The Sistene Chapel in Rome hmm. Michaelangelo must have run out of paint.
Take a good look at some of Hindu Temple Interiors. Who needs sex education. It's all there in 3d statues. Hubba Hubba.
After leaving the maternity ward the Nurse told my wife that every patient can pick up their modesty as they leave.
I think that personal modesty is a driving factor.
After all if we were meant to run around in the nude wouldn't we be born that way?
Some women use foundation to hide inperfictions in the skin. Some people dress to hide inpections in the body.
Comment by Adrienne
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
"Leading American nutritionist Barry Popkin said his research showed Australia was the only country in the world where childhood obesity rates had overtaken adult rates."
So, yeah, there's a couple of athletes around the place, but for every sporty Aussie on television there's thousands of fat asses sitting on a couch at home cheering for them.
Hey Damo, thanks for that
And incidentally, you've suddenly reminded me -- in Grand Theft Auto, there are several pro-nudist rants.
Here's a couple of them:
Barry: I'm naked back here! It's my right as a person!
Maurice: Yes... Let's start with the obvious, yes... Is it moral to be naked?
Barry: Yes! You can't stop me!
Jan: Well, I am a mother, so I have to deal with this issue every day. My adorable kids have learned that it's wrong to be naked. When it's bath time, they know to put on a bathing costume. That's... That's also the reason there are no mirrors in my house. Nudity leads to bad, naughty things.
Barry: Clothes lead to immorality! Nudity stops people from fighting. Have you see an issue of National Geographic lately? People around the world are nude. You don't want to shoot a machine gun or a howitzer or a flamethrower if you're naked. It could burn or scold in quite a personal fashion, quite frankly. Have you been to the zoo? Animals are naked. If everyone were naked, there'd be no war. Everyone's complaining about crime and the theft of cars in the city. No one's ever stolen my car. No one's ever pick-pocketed me. They've never even tried.
Barry: I agree. Statistics show that families that spend time together naked are the best kind of families. You see, social class destinctions disappear when everyone is naked. I can't tell if you're rich or poor, black or white. It doesn't matter 'cause we're all naked. Designer clothes? Try designer nudism! My body was made by the best designer around... Mother Nature. That's why we're lobbying to build a naked casino in Vice City, so old people can gamble naked and poor people can lose hope in the buff.
Lazlow: "Alright Liberty City, you are listening to Chatterbox, the show that is the number one reason...for the success of the internet. Alright, let's take a call...who's on the line?"
Caller: "Clothes!"
Lazlow: "Wh...what about them?!"
Caller: "Clothes!"
Lazlow: "What are you talking about??"
Caller: "Lazlow...clothes!! Clothes, Lazlow! I hate 'em, I just hate 'em!"
Lazlow: "Eh...we're a...we're all about opinions on Chatterbox, which is er...Liberty City's premiere phone-in station. But...why don't you like clothes...?"
Caller: "I just hate them, they're so constricting! I mean does a lion wear clothes? And the lion is the king of the jungle! So why can't I, a humble citizen, go naked!?!"
Lazlow: "Well I mean I guess a lion has two distinct advantages over you. One, I mean you say a king, and therefore it can exercise it's royal prerogative to not wear clothes, and two, it's a cat, and therefore doesn't have to, and three, I mean...now that I think about it...if you want to try to dress a lion you can, but...I...I guess what we're learning is that life can be a little unfair at times!"
Caller: "I'm naked, Lazlow!! I'm naked!!"
Lazlow: "I...you know...I really didn't need to know that!"
Caller: "Why Lazlow, why? Does it offend you?? I was born naked, I'm gonna die naked! I'm going to live naked! So there! There's nothing wrong with being naked!! It's so invigorating feeling the hot leather of a chair...or the cool wind from the north on your naked body."
Lazlow: "I..I...I'm gonna have to cut you off..."
Caller: "Don't you believe in free speech...and free expression? No, of course you don't...all you believe in is free drinks!! I'm naked and there's not a damn thing you can do about it! I'm naked and I feel sooo good!"
Lazlow: "Wh...what about winter!?!"
Caller: "What d'you mean?!"
Lazlow: "You know...I mea...what about winter?! When the wind blows, and it's really cold...I mean...do you prance about like a ninny waiting for your privates to go blue??"
Caller: "I was born naked and I'm gonna die naked!!"
Lazlow: "Eh-heh...and all shriveled up by the sound of things!"
Caller: "Winter was invented by clothing companies! Clothes are unnecessary. They're ugly! Have you ever cooked in the nude??"
Lazlow: "Nah...look is this leading anywhere, cos I mean, we've got a lot of other people waiting to talk about real things here...!"
Caller: "Nudity is real! Open your eyes! Take off your pants, come on!! Come on Lazlow, you can be a figure-head for Liberty City naturists! We have more members now for the first time since 1977. Nudity is back! A lot of people are into nudity and really understand the spiritual side."
Lazlow: "What?!? Hanging out with loads of naked chicks? I mean I see the fun in it, but...I just think that clothes have distinct advantages. Like...like not accidentally cooking yourself, or...or when you're working on a building...!"
Caller: "We're not swingers! It's not about sex. It's about being one with the world."
Lazlow: "Alright dude, groovy, hug a rainbow..."
Comment by Nina
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
If not in general, what about in particular areas -- say, in LA?
Comment by Cibbuano
Hunt Famous
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Fat Cult
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Us Canadians are better: we like our nudity on TV, and we're not fearful of the nude image, but Canadians are shockingly pale from the lack of sun, and no one wants to see that.
In fact, Australian beaches seem so liberal and carefree!
Comment by Cibbuano
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Comment by Lilla
From The Home Front
Enviro Warrior
Dream Herald
Esoteric Bookshop
I don't think I could ever be a nudist...I like to use my imagination...lots!
It just seems so terribly 'wrong' to me to see a stack of naked people running around...I find it disturbing on many levels…
That doesn't mean I haven't gone nude whilst in nature, but privately, not a Bondi Beach topless look - I'm so cool because I'm doing this in public and even manage to master the ‘looking like I don't’ care-kind of way...
*did I just type that?*
...ho hum...I just think that the human body is so perfect in every way and nudity is really best appreciated in private …ooh okay, maybe three, or four or… I am not tribal in that way there is definitely something alien [Arian?] and blue-eyed about me that demands clothing…[and not saying it will never change either]....but for now, does that make me prudish?
Lilla...
Comment by Lilla
From The Home Front
Enviro Warrior
Dream Herald
Esoteric Bookshop
Having said all that, I was about to add....
I then think of Cibby's accurate comment about the over reaction to Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction and other nudy-bits I peek here and there, I don't find it offensive at all and like others think to myself, what's all the hoopla about... for God's sake... it's just a this, o, just a that...
When in Rome I think....I went to a nudist colony once and felt it... extreme... I didn't feel comfortable.... however, once out yachting on Sydney harbour a few of the group started to take of bits of clothing and it didn't bother me...their choice...
Which brings me to my point... which is [a bit sporadic today, sorry…] of what we feel about nudity as being nothing more than a reflex of cultural conditioning, or is it inherent genetics of differing mixes that predetermines our choices in matters of nudity....is voyeurism of nudity on TV, better than honest nudity beside you in society….?
Lilla...
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
Cibby, just wave a penis around on an Australian beach and see how carefree this country is.
I don't know why the government violates my basic human right to remove my pants.
Re good skimpy and bad skimpy, I think, basically, that bad skimpy is the price you pay for good skimpy.
Dear Lilla, that makes you terribly prudish. Basically, one step removed from a Victorian nunnery. I can't believe you have the gumption to air your extremist right wing conservative views on this liberal-minded blog.
That said, I never go shirtless in public, and I avoid all beaches unless there's sculpture on them. In fact, I'm conservative enough that I never wear a shirt unless it has a collar.
Can't believe you went to an Italian nudist colony. That was gutsy of you.
That said, it's probably partly the commodification of women's bodies that deters them from going topless. For instance, the feeling that you're giving something away for free, and that your worth is cheapened. If individuals feel this way, then one, sure, one must respect this; there should be no obligation to go naked. But maybe if a society feels this way, then it is a less enlightened society.
Comment by Kams
Geek Metro
Bloggers Tips
East(My east isn't Australia ) is going ahead towards Public Nudity too these days (more or less). One thing i don't get if you can show almost 90% of you body, whats wrong with the rest?
In east we don't like Nudity, but in Beach and Bar you will see women wearing bikini that hardly covered anything Or wearing something transparent like air
Sorry i do not have any pictures to contribute
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
Personally, I don't reckon there's anything harmful, in general, about seeing the human body. I'm inclined to think that country's that have a more relaxed attitude are healthy. I don't think nudity would increase the crime rate, traumatize children, or subvert morality.
But it's true that there are empirical dimensions to all these claims I'm making that I'd need to find studies to support...
I dunno if I'm right about the Youtube thing, so a bit surprised you're giving me a 60%. I reckon your and Ahmed's "It's just linking" argument is possible...
Comment by Anonymous
I think Europeans tend to have a much more mature and sensible attitude to nudism, nudity and sexuality than most Australians do. I blame a lot of this on our ass kissing of American culture which we all know is still stuck in Queen Victoria's time where attitudes to the human body are concerned. I wish that Australia would rid itself of American influences and start embracing European customs and traditions. We'd have a more happier and balanced society as a rule.
Comment by Nonymous
Philosophy Blog