No more utopias
November 1st 2006 06:13
1. So complex a question -- any issue that could be raised about government, ethics, distribution of resources, end picture... A question doubly complex when one fits one's society inside a world community, or dares to suggest a global utopia.
One might be cynical of the sheer arrogance in purporting to answer, and to impose one's answer.
2. Experience tells you the attempt is disastrous. The twentieth century is full of hells for promised heavens.
Are there inherent dangers in massive and basic changes? One might be skeptical of anyone's ability to predict consequences.
3. The perfect society seems to assume stasis. "Given that human nature is x, and given that the world is y…" But is human nature unchanging? And is the world unchanging?
4. Is the individual trampled on? Is there assumed some sort of one-size-fits all mould?
5. Is the distance unbridgeable from the desirable to the possible? And is it better to deal with the real than the wished for?
***
A vision of the perfect society is unnecessary for social reform. In place of a grand scheme, you can have particular ideals (liberty, an ethical society, freedom from work, disease, hunger). You can make piecemeal rather than wholesale changes. And you can be flexible with respect to time, place, situation, asking yourself, at any point, what is the best choice now, and what is the greatest danger or injustice.
Why believe that the question is answerable in the first place, that there is one solution, or even multiple alternative solutions? All that we have ever known is the contingency and short-sightedness of our suggestions, and the need to allow space for experiment.
Why believe in perfection when all that we've known is perfectibility?
***
This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the Wikipedia articles Heaven and Utopia.
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Comment by historylass
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I think that we all, in some way or another, strive to attain a perfect society, but our ideas of perfection clash with each others.
When I consider the perfect society, I think of Heaven. Heaven is meant to be a perfect place. Once upon a time it was shown as a place of white clouds, angels and harps. Not many people nowadays would consider that perfect.
Comment by Damo
I have to agree with this time Utopia no matter what the form have been impossible. I loved the book Utopia by Thomas Moore which is probably the the most ironic thing he wrote. It seems to me that any attempt to make a Heaven on Earth seems to lead to a Hell on Earth. Yet I can't see why we can't make a better place.
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
Historylass, brilliant comment. I don't have anything to say in response to it.
Damo, I've never read the book, and I'd forgotten that it's often interpreted as ironic -- thanks for the reminder. I find this quote in Wikipedia:
'Throughout the years, many interpretations of St. Thomas More's work, Utopia, have arisen. Although countless individuals have chosen to accept this imaginary society as the realistic blueprint for a working nation, others have postulated More intended nothing of the like. Some maintain the position that More's Utopia functions only on the level of a satire, a work intended to reveal more about England than about an idealistic society. This interpretation is bolstered by the title of the book and nation, and its apparent derivation from the Greek for "no place" and "good place".'
Comment by Damo
Good quote. I do recommend reading the Utopia if you get the chance and compare it with what happened to Thomas Moore. He was living in the highest of comforts hold the highest office below the king. He was thrown in the the tower of London, given a sham trial and beheaded. The book is even more ironic because Moore himself rejected his own Utopian existance for a principle.
Comment by Lilla
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Whoa, that was some timewarp loop there Adrian... I left messages on the way - like Arnie Saknalson (or whatever his name was)... anyway, I'm out again and wanted to say something and have forgotten... just a minute....
*Straightens her hair, smooths the ruffles of her dress*
Aah yes, "Happiness is wanting what you have already got."
Every Eutopia is too easily destroyed by the 7-deadlies otherwise, is it not?
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
Hope your time trip was interesting anyway.
I think you're right that people are happier if they're not future-directed, and if they're content with what they have. This is a sort of Buddhist and Epicurean idea. And a "positive psychology" idea (the "science" that purports to survey itself to a description of what things make people happy, and on that basis to recommend government policy).
That said, I do think that social change is important, and that happiness is not always the most important thing in life (for instance, justice is also important, as is caring for future generations).
I don't know whether a utopia that didn't try to make its citizens content with what they've got -- I don't know whether it would be destroyed by pride, greed, gluttony, lust, anger, envy, and sloth. I'm inclined to think that most of these sins could become harmless past-times in a utopia. But I'd agree that utopian ideas seem to require some degree of change in community values and thinking.
Argues a friend of mine: we already have enough to solve the problems of the world, and to be perfectly happy. We don't need more technology, nor more stuff.
Comment by Lilla
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THanks for taking the time to chat, yes appalling spelling, I know I'm a writer who cannot spell. Arnie Sacnelson was the famous [original] explorer in Jules Vernes, Journey to the Centre of the Earth, you remember.
The problem with happiness is (in my view) that if we honestly follow the path of all the seven deadlies to their natural conclusion we will go full circle and eventually find happiness anyway. In doing so, we also find Justice, moderation, tranquility and all the other good stuff. This happens on the hypothies that all humans are intrinsically good at the core... now, 'xcepting those that ain't and them you can't change anyway, only over time as you so rightly say in your - fast forward post. Alternatively, there's Plato's Republic and a swag more rules....?
My friend says the ones that are bad at the core are the ones coming from the reptillian races - could be, I'm not going to argue that point as it has merit too...(could be too much Stitchin, too)... I like what your friend says best of all...
'... we already have enough to solve the problems of the world, and to be perfectly happy. We don't need more technology, nor more stuff.'
Eutopia for me wouldn't have any more new useless fangled gadgets either - only essentials and free, clean, green energy technologies....combined with some individual agragian practices .... now that's Eutopia.... Full circle, we could call it "Toffler's 4th wave."
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
Re inherently good and inherently bad people... This is an old debate, undertaken across different cultures. Are people inherently decent if you give them half a chance? Or should one be a "realist", and be consciously aware of people's selfishness and of the beast lurking beneath a thin veneer of civilization...?
The position I tend towards is also an old one -- that each individual is a mix, and that the ratio varies from individual to individual... But I don't know that even Vlad the Impaler and Hitler could be described as evil...
Comment by Lilla
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On this we do agree... to quote the old quote ... even evil works for good and the purpose they fulfilled, well HItler only rose on the backs of prejudice at the time. That makes another quote jump to mind immediately: THe only thing necessary for the rise of evil is for good men to do nothing.... I've just gone full circle again!
So we are back to being happy with what we have got as an addage for world peace, joy and laughter... and Eutopia... Hmmm, *pondering*
x and y are always changing to quote another quote: Some things change, some things never change...
I'm getting off the merry-go-round now and grab a glass of wine.... and read your other posts, as they are always so interesting...
thanks
Lilla...
Comment by Lilla
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Comment by Adrian
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Comment by Lilla
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Lilla...
Comment by Lilla
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PS I just love that picture of the spiralling universe....it's hypnotic, isn't it...
Comment by Adrian
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I've managed to find info about that book on Wikipedia, and copy online. Does sound interesting; will add it to my list
Comment by Lilla
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My pleasure... I've just time-warped back here to add my afterthought from you comment on my 'Art of Dreaming" post, regarding energy exchange and expenditure and measuring thought......which is....
You are right about the energy and the scientists have powered a small electric train that was hooked up to a mans mind, run purely on the neuron energy produced by the brain whilst thinking. When he was not thinking, the train ran slower and eventually stopped. When he was pondering it ran faster...
I'd love to know what happened to the speed of the train if his mind was boggling...?
I wasn't sure if you read it because I added it as an afterthought, after you'd probably gone...
This picture reminds me of all the ascension theory's and makes me wonder why I should bother about gloabl warming, because going on some theology, if we destroy this reality, we'll just shift and move to another one! Thinking that kind of leaves me feeling dead inside and not alive...(?) I believe I was given a life to live, to be alive... but what if it's true...?
I will flit up to your very same question now on global warming, for you must know I will have a view on this matter...after a cuppa, some fine art with Katyzzz (to stimulate the cerebral cortex a smidge) and then some maintenance and housework on my own blogs and I'll be back...
Where else could I get art, literature poetry and a sitting with my fav. philosophers and scientists all in one Sunday... certainly not in church, although that has its place too, doesn't it?
Lilla
Comment by Lilla
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Comment by Adrian
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Thanks for your kind words. And it's true -- if you believe in an afterlife, that can sometimes make you indifferent to this one. Suicide bombers are an obvious example... Or, you know, the whole idea of denying yourself in this lifetime for the sake of reward in the next.
I suppose, for many people, not only do they believe in another world, but they also believe in duties in this one.
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Comment by Adrian
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I might believe that, and I might not.
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